My thoughts on Ron/Hermione

[ladysophiekitty]

Most of my flist ships Harry/Hermione, but there are a few of you who ship Ron/Hermione, or don't mind them.

Lately I've been thinking about it, and thinking about book!Ron/Hermione versus movie!Ron/Hermione.

I actually think I prefer movie!Ron/Hermione to book!Ron/Hermione, because there were little things in the books that prevented me from really liking them. The whole "being with other people to make the other person jealous" thing didn't bother me at all, because they were hurt and jealous and wanted to hurt the other person and make them think about what they were missing out on. I don't mind the bickering, either, because these are two kids who like each other, but don't really know how to go about it.

The two main things that bothered me were the birds, and THAT STUPID HOW TO BOOK THAT RON HAD! I mean, seriously. You couldn't figure out how to be in a relationship with Hermione without a self-help book? And Hermione didn't truly start to be in a relationship with Ron until he started taking advice from the book? That kind of makes me mad, actually.

I think THAT'S why I like them in the movies better, because they show the previous stuff without that stupid book and the birds. I loved how they showed Ron as trying to get on Hermione's good side, but not really knowing how to. The moments where Hermione was just so sad that he had left. The awkward moments, when he was like, "let's put this to a vote, shall we? I agree with Hermione!" and he had his hand up, and then slowly dropped it when she was glaring at him. Or how Harry said, "keep talking about that ball of light going through your chest, and she'll forgive you" or, I think the moment that truly stood out to me, that was like, "oh hey! Sexual tension!" was when Ron touched Hermione's face right under her scratch during the cafe scene. Moments like that, I think that I could ship them, even if my heart belongs to Harry/Hermione.

Comments

[avidbeader.livejournal.com]

I think it generally comes down to one's tastes. I cannot stand relationships where it's all fighting until they fall into one another's arms. I hate it in real life. I hated it when Han and Leia did it thirty years ago. I ship Harry and Hermione because they are the best team in the books and because they fit together so well, each supplying something the other needs. That's the kind of relationship I want to read about.

In my opinion, when Rowling went down her path she didn't include a vital component that might make the relationship between Ron and Hermione believable for everyone. She didn't show us any respect between them. Hermione *never* expects Ron to succeed. Ron *never* shows Hermione any genuine appreciation of her passion for learning, except when it gets him out of a jam. They dismiss the things the other values most and never apologize for it.

They may be opposites, but there's nothing to trigger attraction. Hermione isn't looking for someone to loosen her up; her academic drive is too important to her. Ron isn't looking to be improved upon (note that the only character who seemed to think Ron was 100% fine the way he was...was Luna).

So whatever was in Rowling's mind when she wrote the characters...only a portion made it into the books to demonstrate to all the readers why Ron and Hermione would be attracted enough to the other to fall in love. There's simply not enough in the books to justify it without idiotic fixits like Ron using a self-help book to con his way into Hermione's good graces. We are not shown that Ron actually and truly has come to understand and appreciate Hermione...he's just found a shortcut.

I can well believe that the scriptwriters have worked VERY hard in the last movies to try and soften and solidify Ron and Hermione's interactions to make them more believable. But it doesn't balance out five pre-epilogue movies and large chunks of the last movies that show just why Harry and Hermione have a better chance to be a lifelong romance.

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

I recognize that in a nice, shipwar less world I am not supposed to love this comment.

But I fucking love this comment.



Why is it so horrible that I want to be angry? I am.

I love this comment.

[avidbeader.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

I'm not angry so much, except maybe at Rowling for missing her chance to create a work that would last ages -- I truly think that by not closing her circle, not completing the symbolism she claimed to be using, and going with romances that aren't supported by canon evidence, that OBHWF will drag HP down and in fifty years it'll be a publishing phenomenon, not a literary one.

Well, and I have gone through anger at certain immature interviewers who dragged Rowling headlong into the shipwars.

[ladysophiekitty.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't ship opposites attract. When I ship, it tends to be from friendship to love, where the people have very strong bonds of trust and understanding and respect for each other. Sometimes there is some bickering. Back when I was a Bones fan and still liked there relationship (so, seasons 1 and 2) Booth and Brennan would bicker over small things now and then, though maybe bicker is the wrong word. They would have a discussion where maybe they didn't agree with each other, but the respect was definitely still very there.

For Harry/Hermione, I remember reading or hearing someone say that the best marriages are ones in which the people can communicate without saying a word. Harry and Hermione definitely have that.

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

the best marriages are ones in which the people can communicate without saying a word

this forever.

best otp. how did we lose.

[avidbeader.livejournal.com]

The author wouldn't follow where her characters were leading her.

And I doubly agree in the previous comment about the difference between bickering over small things, bickering over big things, and fighting over big things. Often some R/Hr shippers will talk about how the fights show sexual tension between them, but I don't see it. I see two people who disagree on the most fundamental things and neither will give a single inch. Why does Ron keep it a secret that he cursed his Muggle driving evaluator in the epilogue? Because if he told Hermione the truth she'd rip him a new one for cheating and using magic on a Muggle in a non-life-threatening situation. And probably make him write a note of apology to the man and retake his test (and people call Hermione Harry's mother-figure?!?).

Ron and Hermione bicker over the small things, bicker over the big things, and the best they can do is agree to disagree for Harry's sake or lie to the other.

Now, if you want to talk about sexual tension, think about the fight in OotP where Hermione is trying to dissuade Harry from going to the Ministry. That's a scene full of tension and it's quite easy to interpret it as sexual. They're both moving slowly toward one another as they fight, step by step. They're saying quite hurtful things because they *need* so much to persuade the other to their side. Not just want, but need. Harry needs Hermione to let him go save Sirius. Hermione needs to keep Harry safe at Hogwarts. And when they do arrive at a compromise, to check Grimmauld Place, it's a compromise that moves them forward rather than leaving them at stalemate.

Sorry for the tl;dr. I just have a lot of thoughts spilling out tonight.

[anythingbutgrey.livejournal.com]

I KNOW. OOTP. BEST FUCKING BOOK. SHIP BIBLE. I CAN'T. I LOVE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THESE KIDS. AND I LOVE YOUR ANGRY ICONS. I THINK I DELETED ALL OF MINE BECAUSE THE SHIP WARS TAUGHT ME TO BE ASHAMED~.

[avidbeader.livejournal.com]

Heh. I had to keep a couple for when I want to snark or shout at canon :-)

I never went through an ashamed period, myself, for whatever reason. I know I have the right to interpret a book any way I like as long as I can support it with evidence from the texts. I tend to ignore most of the wank, especially when I make my reasonable posts and the only thing that comes back is along the lines of "JKR SAID SO!!!" or "READ THE BOOKS AGAIN!" without any coherent counterarguments. And I do limit the majority of my online time to H/Hr-friendly territory precisely because I don't want to waste my time arguing with people who won't listen to possibilities.

[ladysophiekitty.livejournal.com]

Don't apologize! I LOVE this kind of thing, especially since I mostly agree with what you say.

I had forgotten about that part in the epilogue (I remember very little from it, actually) and GRRR about the whole thing. Like, I think that Ron and Hermione were interested in each other, but it's not a relationship that I see as a lasting one. Especially since compromise is SUCH A BIG PART OF A RELATIONSHIP. And Ron and Hermione never compromised, never apologized, never learned. They just stopped talking to each other, sometimes months at a time, until Harry or circumstances forced them to "make up" in a sense, and I put that in quotation marks because it wasn't actually acknowledged, more of a OK we're going to forget about it. And then a bit later, they're going at it again! It was a vicious cycle, and if the only way they can prevent the constant fighting is for Ron to actually LIE to Hermione, especially about things that she would would not be OK with (like using magic to force the muggle to give him his driver's license), then that's not an honest or healthy or good relationship.

Oh OotP. Harry and Hermione were so hot and amazing in that book. That and PoA are the real shippy ones!

[avidbeader.livejournal.com]

Exactly. A relationship built on low expectations (Hermione assuming Harry was prefect and shoving her foot way past her teeth when she learned it was Ron?) and lies is really not healthy at all. Neither is hero-worship and escapism (Harry and Ginny) but that's a whole 'nuther post :-)

[sweet-iolanthe.livejournal.com]

OH. GOD. THIS IS BRILLIANT .

yes yes yes.

[avidbeader.livejournal.com]

*blushes* Thanks. Glad you liked.

[sunny-serenity.livejournal.com]

Holy crap I totally forgot about that... I need to re-read this fricken book and watch that one scene in OotP... cos I don't think I could watch the entire thing. The fail. It hurts.

[avidbeader.livejournal.com]

If I remember correctly (because it's been a while since I watched the OotP movie as well), that was one point where I was sorely disappointed in the substitute scriptwriter. The movie scene isn't nearly as intense and certainly isn't as long or detailed as the book.

For the shippiest H/Hr scenes in the book, the non-Kloves scriptwriter certainly cut out the vast majority of H/Hr interaction.

[ladysophiekitty.livejournal.com]

We needed Kloves! He always includes amazing HHR scenes.

[sunny-serenity.livejournal.com]

I am so freaking mad at him for not doing OotP. It was my FAVOURITE until that travesty came out. Now all I wanted to do is this to Kloves:

[sunny-serenity.livejournal.com]

I wish I had this skill to make this kind of reasoning communicable to others without spiraling into keyboardsmashes and capslocking. ...this is why I don't go out much.

[avidbeader.livejournal.com]

Heh. Being older than the average bear in fandom, studying literature up to PhD levels, and teaching literature will help make one very capable of being articulate in one's reasoning.

Plus the calmer and quietly snarker I am, the more CAPSLOCK the other side gets :-)

[sunny-serenity.livejournal.com]

Can I use you as my sage wisdom/touchstone/articulation translator when shit gets crazy? Cos lets face it, this is HP fandom we are talking about. World. Wide. Wank. ...is inevitable. ...maybe I should've gone to school if for nothing else but to solidify my Defence Against the Deluded A-holes.